Saturday, October 28, 2006

the intriguing samudrams.....
the origins of names of places have always intrigued me..though i am a novice in this area , i do keep my eyes and ears open for any information.quite a bit of research has been done in this area when it comes to big cities.A sample could be localities in Madras.

Kodambakkam : Essentially a corrupted ( if i may use the word) form of Ghoda Bagh.The denizens of this place were the horses of the Nawab of Arcot.

Mandaveli: This was a place where cows used to graze ( Mandai veli)

Washermanpet : (vannarapettai). quite recent in origin, this was a place where dhobhis used to wash clothes. even at the time of the british,madras was a water starved place n Vannarapettai was one place where there was adequate water.

the pettais' ( As in saidapettai) , the Urs' ( as in Pudur), the pallis' (as in athipalli), purams' ( as in ramanathapuram) have again puzzled me. i still beleive all of them are the same , corrupted according local sensibilities and history.

Though a little bit of research into this could reveal more concrete answers, this is always restricted to names which are quite common..
The less significant problems in life are assigned to people like me to come out with conjectures, theories and wild swings. here i indulge in an attempt to throw one such argument to solve one such puzzle. "The puzzle of the samudrams"

I have come across 4 samudrams so far. they are:
tirunelveli district : ambasamudram, gopalasamudram and ravanasmaudram
Near hosur :ramasamudram.
First things first why the samudrams...
Most of these places are close to river systems. for instance ambai n gopalasamudram are right into the womb of the tamirabarani river systems.ravanasamudram must be close to gadannadhi or ramanadhi ( it's a guess here).these places must have got their names well before the dams were constructed to tame the river sytems. before that these palces would have witnessed floods at a regular basis.Further the huge waterlands nearby could have been responsible for these places to get the "samudram" tag.
then comes the ambai, ravana and gopala names..
i cannot figure out why ambai (could be something to do with amma). but gopala would be krishna.but why did they miss out rama before opting for ravana.one reason could be the existense of ramanadhi. Now that we have a name with rama tag probably ppl resorted to ravana. There are 2 things here. either the place ravanasamudram had a highly negative connotation to it(an evil place types). But this is negative connotation is associated with the portrayal of ravana in the ramayana versions of the north.In the south , especially in TN ravana is not looked at from an evil perpective. he is considered to be erudite scholar . the only negative character he exhibited was arrogance.Going by this reasoning ravanasamudram need not have a negative history associated with it.this place could have been named to honour ravana.its surprising to note that all these places are associated with Vishnu.Guess ,at some point of time this must have been a hotbed of Vainavism.

The only thing which does not fit into the puzzle is ramasamudram. i do not find any major rivers existing in this place except for probably a stream which flows nearby. it quite possible it must have been a viable river system before it started drying up (like the palar system).Why did'nt they name it as Ravanasamudram or say gopalasamudram.my eagerness to find a solution prompts me to take a wild guess here. Could it be possible that these 2 places which are far apart by 700 odd Km be linked in some way.it's quite possible that people could have migrated from the northern districts to southern ones. If not archeological, we would need some anthropological evidence to prove this wild claim.But my personal opinion is, more research into this could give us startling results. well, its been fun conjecturing , the difficult part is proving the same. but folkfore has always supported wild conjectures. may be this conjecture would might as well be part of folkfore, a few generations down the line.

22 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi
One more samudram- rangasamudram also in Tirunelveli dist.

1:09 AM  
Blogger Sankarasubramanian said...

Hi
Two things come to my mind
1. Samudram means collection of things, but generally it is for water - Sea.
For example Jana samudram means huge crowd.
So it may be as collection of high population ( in those days) or collection of many casts or religion.
2.If i am correct, Ravanasamudram is not named after Ravana but after Ravanappa naicker of Naicker dynasty.So no negativity there.
If I am wrong pl let know
Sankarasubramanian

6:21 PM  
Blogger Madras to Ambai said...

u r probably right about the ravanasamudram thing..but when did naickers rule western tirunelveli?? by they way are naickers same as nayaks.i always th8 they ruled areas close to thanjai and madurai..

7:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ravanasamudram is named after ravanappa naidu who habited this place and at one point of time literally owned the village. infact the meenakshi sunderahwar alayam in the village agraharam was built by them.

4:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

did u check up about ravanasamudram and link with ravanappa naidu

2:38 AM  
Blogger Madras to Ambai said...

Hi,
Checked with a guy who hails from ravanasamudram..little does he know about the origins..but interesting to know about naidu's setting down so deep in the south.. by the way are the Naickers same as the Naidus??

10:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

about ravanasamudram u can contact Mr siva who hails from ravanasamudram. he now lives in chennai. his no. is 9445111150.

even i am from ravanasamudram. i stay in delhi. once u check with him do post a comment

4:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

did u check with mr siva

1:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,

My name is Poornima Naidu. Iam from Bangalore currently residing in USA. This is the 1st time i have ever posted a comment.

Well just to clarify things, Naidu's and Naicker's mean the same thing. Naicker is how Tamilians call Naidu's.

My Grandmother`(mom's mother) and her Brother who was a great Saint (Tiruchi Swamiji) who is very well known in Banglore and other parts of the country were born near tirunelveli.

My Great Grandmother and my Great grandfather were direct decendents of Krishnadevaraya's heredity.

Okay, Ravanasamudram was named after Ravanappa Naidu who also happens to be my Great, Great Grandpa.

If anyone can provide me more info abt him and the place or a link or something, that would be great. When i land in India, I would def want to visit ravanasamudram. Its def on top of my list.

Appreciate it!!

2:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Poornima !

I am N.Sriram. i stay in delhi and belong to ravanasamudram. I have heard a lot about ravanappa naidu . at one point of time he literally owned the whole village. ino boby from his family reside in ravanasamudram now. the family home is still there. i have heard that his sons had moved to chennai and occassionaly visit ravanasamudram during thirunal . thirunal is a annual function held at meenakshi sundareshwar temple during januray. ravanasamudram is inhabited by people from all class and religion who live in harmony and respect each other. people of this place have a modern outlook with deep value for culture. do visit this place. i am sure you would be loved and respected by one and all. if you want any further details you can contact me at - sriram@thehindu.co.in

3:41 AM  
Blogger Subbu Photography said...

Hi everyone my native place is ravanasamudram and i an residing in chennai if u want to know about ravanasamudram go to orkut and search for ravanasamudram community

1:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi pals iam kannan,iam also from Ravanasamudram now residing in Chennai. ravanasamudram is situated 45 kms from Tirunelveli enroute to kuttralam. The name came from mr.Ravanappa naicker who was the minister in the Pandya kingdom and he is the person who found Ravanasamudram. Since he was the founder of our village the place was named after him.Ravanasamudram was originally called as Indirapuri.Even now we have the ten day long Tirunaal festival in which on the 4th day of the festival we pay our respects to their family who are still residing at Ravanasamudram.IF you would like to know any other details u can ask me anytime.

8:08 AM  
Blogger Ram said...

hi everyone... I too belong to Ravanasamudram and have participated a few times in the thirunaal festival... I remember very well once when we hosted the Pachai Saathi for the festival... I concur on the origin of the name.. ironically though, the tributary that flows behind the agrahaaram is Raama nadhi, correct?

I am the grandson of Ramakrishnan (periya ambi) and also go by that name. We are good friends with Mahadevan and the late Sewri Ambi's family...

3:44 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

hai ram!

I am sriram from delhi. remember ( grandson of Mr Mahadevan). i believe your sister got married recently in chennai ( i may be wrong also). i hope every body in your family is fine.

thanks

n.sriram

3:32 AM  
Blogger SANKAR SALVADY said...

Nice blog and a fascinating discussion following it. . I hail from one of the samudrams mentioned in the blog , Ambasamudram..
thanks for the enlightenment you guys have provided.

Cheers

7:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Besides Rengasamudram near Adachani, there is also a Vadamalaisamudram in Tirunelveli Dist. Then there is a Chinnababusamudram near Villupuram and a Kesamudram in Andhra near Warangal, and of course Sivasamudram in Karnataka.

2:15 AM  
Blogger Madras to Ambai said...

Let me add one more... Thalapathi Samudram again in Tirunelveli district

8:25 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

ravanasamudram is a plesent and peacefull native.native life is memorable for every one..we cant forget the olden days..now my mind is around our native....

12:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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7:53 AM  
Blogger PANZA-The Man Behind Times.. said...

The film music director Bharadwaj hails from Ravanasamudram and the other music director Balabharathi is from Palamadai. Ravanasamudram is closer to Kadayam, Muthaliarpatti being the closest Railway Station.
The population is mostly Muslim, most of them have relocated from Pottalpudur, 3 kms away.

1:37 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

History of RAVANASAMUDRAM!!!!

RAVANASAMUDRAM village was named after Ravanappa Naicken,a Poligar chieftain,who ruled over this place some 200 year ago. He was a descendant of the Naicker Dynasty which ruled over Madurai and the surrounding regions in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. After the down-fall of the Naickers' regime at Madurai, several members of the Royal family and the army chieftains travelled further south with their followers and established small principalities in Tirunelveli and Ramnad districts. Tenkasi was one such principality and it was ruled by Parakrama Pandya Naicken. He was succeeded by his brother. In the middle of the 18th century, the East India Company was fighting its way to establish its hegemony over the local chieftains by demanding tributes from them. Parakrama Pandya's brother joined with the neighbouring Poligars in defying the authority of the E.I.C. On his refusal to pay the tribute to the British, the principality of Tenkasi was invaded by the British and reduced to ruins. The two Sons of the King fled in to two directions. Krishnappa Naicken who fled towards Ambasamudram along with his followers, cleared a part of the jungle and established a small settlement on the banks of Rama-Nadhi river, called Krishnapuram. Krishnappa Naicken built a strong Fort and an army in this village. In course of time, the British came to know about the settlement of of Krishnapuram and demanded Tribute. The Governer of the EIC sent two Ambassadors to negotiate with Krishnappa Naicken, who refused to pay any Tribute. Then the two Ambassadors treacherously broke-open the dam across Rama-Nadhi at a distance of 2 miles on the west of the village. The whole village was submerged and several people were perished in the floods. The King himself died a valiant death in his desperate attempts to save his people-subjects from the floods. It was on this day of the flood that a Son was born to Krishnappa Naicken, just a few minutes before the benevolent King breathed his lost. The Queen and the new born baby were saved from the flood by Thirumalayppa Naicken,the faithful Minister of Krishnappa Naicken. Krishnappa Naicken's son grew up in to an accomplished Prince under the guidance and protection of Thirumalayappa Naicken and the the Price was named RAVANAPPA NAICKEN. In the course of time, the flood ravaged village was completely rebuilt by Ravanappa Naicken who took over the reigns of the administration. He also built the MEENAKSHI AMMAN TEMPLE. The village was then naamed after him as RAVANASAMUDRAM

Thanks to 1961 Census report!!

8:53 AM  
Blogger Sankarasubramanian said...

I can also add here that like regiments in army, naickers must have named their regiments as samudram. And the places governed by them were called by the chieftain of the regiment. Like Ravanappa naicker, Amba Naicker, Gopala Naicker, Ranga Naicker and so on

1:08 AM  

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